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Old 11-20-2004, 11:35 AM   #11
AKIRA
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Oh I dunno, call me stupid, but maybe the people of Chile actually now a little bit about their own history. Try Augusto Pinochet. The CIA helped place this asshole piece of trash in power after a coup d'etat which saw Salvador Allende, the democratically elected president, killed on September 11, 1973. Allende sought to nationalize the land, giving back to the poor peasants and workers....obviously this was not favored by corporate interest. This type of foreign policy was common place.

So yes, people from other countries would like to get out of theirs and come to America because in their country they are treated like shit. Maybe if we helped to make things better for them in their country, rather than exploit the people and destroy the environment, they wouldn't be in such a hurry to leave. By making things better I mean make things better for the most amout of people, the poor, not the rich fuckers who will agree to screw over their people to keep powerful nations happy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/27/internat...8e473ed&ei=5070

edit:
as a side note, since Pinochet is facing charges by the International Criminal Court I figured I'd point out our governments strong opposition to the ICC. Surprise anyone? It follows the same logic as laws that protect our soldiers abroad from being subject to their host-countries laws. We who talk so much about liberty and justice aren't so quick to apply those same standards to ourselves. With military bases in something like 75 countries rape, drunk driving, assault etc etc...these cases often end without justice for those foreign nations...and makes us look like a bunch of hypocrites.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/intljustice/icc/usindex.htm
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Old 11-20-2004, 05:26 PM   #12
Greedo LFD
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Come now Akira, you mean government confiscation of land to "give back" to the people... like in Cuba! Where you get to work the land for the government and regardless of how hard you work, you get back a pittance.
Pinochet was a scumbag... but he wasn't a commie, and that's what mattered back then... especially when you had the Shining Path running around in force back then.
The situation in Peru was far more complex than you make it sound. Pinning all the problems in Peru on the US and the CIA is historically inaccurate, but acceptable in today's revisionist times eh?


And as for US Military bases overseas, in every location, to include Japan, the military population has a far lower crime rate than the surrounding population, and the retribution offenders find in being punished by the UCMJ for their crimes is far swifter and fairer than the local courts. US personnel that commit crimes don't get off. They get the book thrown at them. Especially for crimes committed while a representative of the US Gov't abroad.

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Old 11-21-2004, 08:04 PM   #13
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you make it sound like having no land and working for pennies for some fruit/mining corporation that doesn't give a shit about you is a much better situation. The whole "I need control of all of these satalites" notion as well as the commie threat from Latin America is a joke, just like our "war against terror" during the Regan Admin. When you have the World Court as well as the International Criminal Court telling you to stop doing something, only America can say "Naw, I think we will keep on doing it, go fuck yourself" which says something to me about what kind of leadership role we play in the world.

I think a lot of what we are seeing today, various forms of extremism, are the direct result of our history of immoral foreign policy. Your take on foreign military bases is also vastly different from what I've read. I think the reason might be because you state that "the military population has a far lower crime rate than the surrounding population" when the surrounding population is exactly where the military population will go when most of the crimes are committed. From what I've read, these surrounding populations are pretty standard with their bars, brothels and venereal diseases. Again man, I love you for your quick dismissal and counter techniques, glad your back.
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Old 11-21-2004, 09:40 PM   #14
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lol
I don't mean the fucking vice districts that flourish right outside the bases. I mean the local community as in the entire nations they reside in.

In the case of Peru, they were fucked either way. We just preferred the anti-communist type of thug. But don't pretend they weren't both thugs or both unsavory. I didn't say it was good. It was Cold War reality that YOU dismiss as irrelevant. As a historical revisionist you'd like to, but as someone who remembers very well what things were really like then and not through the lens of today, it certainly made sense. The realities of the era were in play... otherwise lets indict Jimmy Carter for war crimes!
The way the ICC and World Court is set up he would be. In a heartbeat. And giving up sovereignty in the name of world justice and opening our nation up to every nutcase with an ax to grind is beyond sanity.

The world court and ICC as it is set up now is a bad idea. I'm glad we've got the horses to tell them to fuck off.
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Old 11-21-2004, 10:20 PM   #15
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The UCMJ is far more efficient, harsh and final than any court found in the countries who you so snivel about not having the right to prosecute American Soldiers. Moreso than any country in the world we punish our soldiers when they break the rules.
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Old 11-22-2004, 06:01 PM   #16
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Cause with the UCMJ, you got one of the worst prisons in the world in terms of harshness: Leavenworth. Nice deterrent to any shit going on.
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